08:03:16 #startmeeting 08:03:16 Meeting started Thu Mar 26 08:03:16 2015 UTC. The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 08:03:16 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 08:03:19 #info Welcome to the 42nd Mahara developer meeting. Please introduce yourself using #info at the start of the line so that we know who's attending today / tonight. 08:03:20 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ 08:03:29 #info yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko from Totara Learning Solutions, Wellington, NZ 08:03:37 #info tobiasz_ is Tobias Zeuch, developer at fluidOps, Walldorf, Germany 08:03:39 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator, Ljubljana, Slovenia 08:04:01 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ 08:04:08 tobiasz_: congrats on the new job. hope you've had a good time so far. 08:04:24 #info aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells of Catalyst IT in Wellington, New Zealand 08:04:25 thanks, I did :) 08:04:30 :-) 08:04:45 anzeljg: are you still here? 08:05:11 Ok. Let's move on. 08:05:13 #topic Items from last meeting 08:05:13 #info Everyone have a look at annotations and smartevidence patches from nigel and ghada as high priority ones for 1504 08:05:13 That was done. We merged the annotations feature, but pushed back the infrastructural work for adding page / collection categories as that needed some more work. 08:05:41 Hi 08:05:41 hi sonn. please introduce yourself. 08:05:42 hi sonn 08:06:09 yep - and I think there was a few small things for annotations that we made new bug reports for 08:06:24 yep. those are supposed to be fixed during the rc 08:06:53 anything else on this? 08:07:01 #info sonn is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ 08:07:35 robertl_: you are up next then. 08:07:36 #info robertl_ share a speadsheet of issues to review with everyone 08:08:14 that I guess was the google spreadsheet we used during release 08:08:19 yep 08:08:34 so that was done as well. :-) 08:08:43 Well that is all pretty much finished up - just a few rc stuff on it 08:08:55 cool 08:09:00 which should get done before major release 08:09:22 #info yuliyabozhko1 add some info on RTL support to wiki 08:09:31 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Better_RTL_Support 08:09:41 feel free to correct/add anything 08:10:05 these are the tips we are using in our team at Totara 08:10:24 cool 08:10:58 I was not sure how Mahara handles RTL in Javascript 08:11:04 so let a TODO there 08:11:08 hm, we could probably merge some of that in to the existing page about lang strings 08:11:09 if anyone wants to expand 08:11:23 can wait for an offline answer if the following is obvious to everybody else: we already have a language pack. what's the difference between the good and the bad string besides the way actual strings are called in files? 08:12:02 good and bad is not about strings, but the way of doing things :) 08:12:12 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Language_strings 08:12:22 the proper way to code for strings by the looks of it 08:12:38 code for lang strings that is 08:13:16 I suspect there isn't any hard rules for RTL in the mahara javascript code 08:13:21 that'll be a massive change i guess with the over 5725 strings we have. is it? 08:14:03 anitsirk: I am not sure what you mean... 08:14:21 let's leave it for after the meeting. i might be mixing things up. 08:14:34 we don't need to change anything in exsiting code. these are just the guidelines 08:14:35 but I guess a way to handle the issues with js is for js to handle the adding/removing of css classes rather than direct text 08:14:36 :) 08:15:18 Moodle does smth like : if (Y.one('body').hasClass('dir-rtl')) { 08:16:24 as I understand we add dir=rtl in tag, so that can be used too 08:16:52 is the "dir-rtl" class used in mahara already? 08:16:58 so yep - it's something to think about when getting the js to manipulate the DOM 08:17:00 yep 08:18:01 What is the next step? 08:18:15 anyway, these are just some tips to keep in mind during review and coding 08:18:57 a possible step is to find out weak points in mahara for rtl stuff 08:19:13 #info the tips on the RTL support page on the wiki are some tips / guidelines for coding and reviewing code. 08:19:37 robertl_ i think we already have at least one bug for that. 08:19:44 ok 08:20:10 e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1049400 08:20:30 shall we move on? 08:20:41 yep, that's all from me 08:20:44 are there guidelines about where to apply the different float-style? 08:21:03 a bit here https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Better_RTL_Support#Right-to-left_language_support 08:21:21 but would be good to list css styles that need mirroing 08:21:24 ok, thanks 08:21:56 #info sonn and yuliya figure out how to create a dialect language code and set up translations for it 08:21:56 I will see if I can expand a bit on that 08:22:05 sorry yuliyabozhko1 08:22:36 hmm, I tried to have a look at the end of last month. and it appears that custom language code are not as functional as I thought 08:22:45 they are basically for replacing existing ones 08:23:14 so, I am not sure we can do anything here with Launchpad 08:23:19 #info custom language codes can't be set up in Launchpad. 08:24:07 did you try to contact anyone at Launchpad to see if they could create one? 08:24:29 or would they have to be really only the official lang codes that exist through ISO (I think it was that)? 08:24:33 nope, I didn't even think about that :) maybe Sonn did something in this direction? 08:24:41 don't think so. 08:24:54 in an earlier conversation they had only said that it's not possible yet. 08:24:56 could you put it on the next agenda? 08:25:02 ah, ok 08:25:13 sure. following up with them would be good. maybe something has changed since then? 08:25:19 it was only a very short comment. 08:25:34 cool. i can do that for the next meeting 08:25:53 #action yuliyabozhko1 will try to contact Launchpad and check if there is a way to get a custom language code set up. 08:25:57 thank you, yuliyabozhko1. 08:26:03 np :) 08:26:21 since sonn is not here, i think there is nothing else on this for the moment. 08:26:23 #info robertl_ create a Wiki page about HTML export improvements and set up a blueprint in launchpad 08:26:23 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Import//Export/HTML_Export#Adjustments 08:26:23 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/mahara/+spec/improve-html-export 08:27:01 so yeah - I didn't really get much further with this - other than to make a blueprint page and some basic notes 08:27:31 I'll try and get some launchpad bugs filed once I look into it more 08:27:41 great. thanks. 08:28:14 but I'm feeling the most useful thing will be to try and see if the page's actual theme 08:28:18 can be exported 08:28:28 rather than it just reverting to the raw theme 08:28:35 yes. that would be great. and i guess also the skin. 08:28:41 and also if skins as well 08:28:44 yep 08:29:02 so the html export 'looks' like it did on the site 08:29:07 yes 08:29:23 which in theory doesn't seem like it should be too hard 08:30:16 exactly - if it can zip up the assets of the raw theme 08:30:35 it should be able to zip up the assets of other themes as well 08:32:34 that's all I've got on this topic for now 08:32:39 robertl_ do you want an action item for creating the bugs? 08:32:58 yes please - it's more likely to happen that way :) 08:33:21 #action robertl_ to create bugs / wishlist items for improving the HTML export. 08:33:50 #topic GitLab acquired Gitorious: What does this mean for us? (Kristina) 08:33:51 #info GitLab acquired Gitorious and Gitorious will cease to exist in its current form at the end of May. 08:33:51 https://about.gitlab.com/2015/03/03/gitlab-acquires-gitorious/ 08:33:51 This means that we need to discuss where to keep our main repository. 08:33:51 #info To my knowledge, Gitorious had been chosen because it is entirely open source (in contrast to Github for example). 08:33:51 #idea If we want to stay independent an continue with our work flow, one possibility would be to simply host the repositories on a server. Most of our work flow is done through Gerrit these days (except the user manual and translations) 08:33:51 #idea Alternatively, we could install GitLab on a server and maybe even move to using that for code review instead of Gerrit (eventually). 08:33:51 Or...? 08:36:06 well, that probably depends on Catalyst resources? 08:36:37 so I'm guessing whatever is used there will need to be some simple to use public interface for it 08:37:14 The way I see it, we have basically three options 08:37:46 We could migrate our "official" repo to GitLab, to Github, to some other third-party git service, or to a Catalyst server 08:37:52 four options ;) 08:38:20 heh 08:38:26 For the Mahara code itself, gerrit is essentially the "official" repo, and we can just use the plugin to mirror it to other locations for convenience 08:38:35 #idea four options: migrate our "official" repo to GitLab, to Github, to some other third-party git service, or to a Catalyst server 08:39:12 I think it would be good to have an "official" clone of everything on a non-Catalyst server, for the sake of maintaining Mahara's OS-ness 08:40:12 as well as availability - as having mirrors in more than one country can be useful 08:40:14 +1 08:40:16 That said, we could set up syncing for mahara-scripts and the manual, as we do for Mahara itself 08:40:43 Probably one thing we should do is look through all the repo's in gitorious and determine how many we're still actively using 08:41:00 I am not too sure how it all works right now, so have nothing to offer, sorry :) 08:41:08 sure 08:41:17 we should keep everything though somewhere since gitorious will be gone. a backup is always good. 08:41:27 I mean, one nice thing about git itself, is that *any* copy of the repository is a full copy as good as any other. 08:41:36 Yes 08:41:50 I have actually already used the "migrate to gitlab" button in gitorious to copy all the gitorious repositories to gitlab 08:41:51 #idea have clones on non-Catalyst servers for the sake of maintaining Mahara's OS-ness 08:42:05 https://gitlab.com/groups/mahara 08:42:44 I have lately started using the Mahara github account more, for some Mahara side projects 08:43:04 well, for the Moodle plugins 08:43:06 https://github.com/maharaproject/ 08:43:51 yep, I use that one too 08:44:52 would be good to have those plugins also in the "official" place 08:45:32 I suggest we make Github the "official" location for the active repositories, since it's the easiest to use out of these options, and it's quite popular amongst open source projects 08:45:34 aarowlaptop: does the gitorious login just work for gitlab with all the same permissions? 08:45:36 are there a lot of changes from gitorious to gitlab? It's also free and offers the basic functionality, right? 08:45:42 anitsirk: I can't recall 08:46:00 tobiasz_: GitLab has a commercial offering, and a community offering 08:46:10 the community one is open source but lacks some features of the commercial one 08:46:22 I think what I've migrated Mahara to is the community version 08:46:51 #idea Just use github as the new official location for the active repositories, because it's available, easy to use, and popular 08:47:16 aarowlaptop: you said that gerrit actually has the codebase. so why not use that as official location? 08:47:20 #idea Keep copies of the inactive repositories in gitlab, and sync the active ones to gitlab as well, to hedge our bets 08:47:22 ok, thanks. Just wondering about the non-official plugins. I think, there might be some hosted on gitorious and if there is a migration button, that's probably the easiest way to keep those alive 08:47:44 #idea And if someone finds a really-really-really open git option, we can always switch to that 08:47:47 plugins don't have to sit under the maharaproject account. they can sit anywhere. 08:48:04 aarowlaptop: :) 08:48:16 anitsirk: We could store all the repositories in gerrit. One of its functionalities is just to act like a git repository 08:48:38 This would have the added benefit of being able to use gerrit to code review changes in those other repositories 08:48:48 #info all repositories could be stored in gerrit. One of its functionalities is just to act like a git repository 08:49:02 #info This would have the added benefit of being able to use gerrit to code review changes in those other repositories 08:49:26 For gerrit repo's other than the core "mahara", we could set up different permissions to give people direct "push" access, for when code review isn't really appropriate. 08:49:50 #info For gerrit repo's other than the core "mahara", we could set up different permissions to give people direct "push" access, for when code review isn't really appropriate. 08:50:17 I suggest to ponder the options until the next meeting (which will be before the end of may deadline) and see if there is a best solution or if there is a mix of things. 08:50:20 I had some hesitation about putting everything in gerrit, but I can't remember exactly what it was... 08:50:34 just feels not quite right to me :) 08:50:57 Okay, in the meantime, we've got everything copied into gitlab 08:51:07 we can always copy it elsewhere quite easily 08:51:19 that's what git excels at ;) 08:51:22 sounds good 08:52:07 #action Everyone: Review the possible options for the official mahara code repository that aarowlaptop mentioned and weight advantages and disadvantages. 08:52:33 let's move on. 08:52:34 #topic Mahara 15.04 release (Kristina) 08:52:34 #info The Mahara 15.04 release candidate 1 has been available for testing for almost a week. 08:52:34 No critical issues were found so far, but we don't know how many people have already been able to test. 08:52:34 Please give it a thorough testing on your own test server. 08:52:34 #info If you don't have a test server available, you can use http://master.dev.mahara.org and report issues on the bug tracker. 08:52:34 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+filebug 08:53:55 many new features got in. 08:54:04 tobiasz_: sorry that one of your inbox ones didn't make it. 08:54:44 there have been a few minor issues filed by people on launchpad - but expect there should be more :) 08:55:28 though we do now have behat testing - so maybe less issues/bugs slipping thru 08:55:43 yeah, I didn't look much into those lately, but I'll see if I can help getting them into the next release 08:56:16 great. the next release will look very different. the inbox won't have tables anymore. quite a bit of redesign with the bootstrap framework stuff. 08:56:58 and thanks to robertl_ for helping on getting the other one into the release 08:57:15 no worries 08:58:08 #info we are still planning on releasing mid April. As usual, it'll depend on testing and any major issues... 08:58:17 so: test away :-) 08:58:46 #topic Next meeting and chair 08:58:46 What about 23 April 2015? The times will have changed. 8 UTC will be 9 a.m. UK and 10 a.m. rest of Europe and 8 p.m. NZ. Would that work or should we go one hour earlier? 08:59:30 8pm NZ sounds ok to me 08:59:48 me too 08:59:48 anzeljg: what would work well for you? 10 a.m. or 9 a.m.? 09:00:01 I am on leave, flying from Boston to Iceland that day, so won't make it, sorry :) 09:00:11 both, but I'm not sure if I will be able to attend anyway... 09:00:22 yuliyabozhko1: wow. nice trip 09:00:33 :D so excited 09:01:00 i guess we'll stick to 8 UTC then. 09:01:04 who wants to chair? 09:01:30 sorry, but I have to leave. bye. 09:01:35 bye anzeljg 09:02:05 aarowlaptop, robertl_, yuliyabozhko1? 09:02:19 I won't be around that day 09:02:28 sorry again. 09:02:41 attention span is very short tonight. :-( 09:02:49 aarowlaptop, you want to do it or shall I? 09:02:58 I am nearly falling asleep too :P 09:03:15 I would be honored to let you do this one, robertl_ ;) 09:03:21 HAHA 09:03:29 ok I'll chair it 09:03:36 thank you, robertl_. 09:03:36 thanks, robertl_ 09:03:48 thanks 09:04:04 #info robertl_ is going to chair the 43rd Mahra developer meeting on 23 April 2015 at 8:00 UTC. 09:04:14 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=43rd+Mahara+developer+meeting&iso=20150423T08&p1=1440 09:04:22 #topic Any other business 09:04:50 I don't think I have anything 09:05:09 nothing 09:05:27 robertl_? 09:05:32 nothing from me 09:05:35 i have a short one. 09:05:35 #info If you want to get an article into the next newsletter, please send it to newsletter@mahara.org latest on Monday, 30 March 2015. 09:05:43 that's it. 09:05:59 i guess that then concludes our latest meeting. have a nice evening. 09:06:01 #endmeeting