20:10:10 #startmeeting 20:10:10 Meeting started Wed Aug 29 20:10:10 2012 UTC. The chair is iarenaza. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:10:10 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:10:22 #info iarenaza is Iñaki Arenaza, Mondragon Unibertsitatea, Spain 20:10:35 #info aqualaptop is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT Ltd, NZ 20:10:44 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia 20:10:45 #info sonn Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT Ltd., NZ 20:11:02 #topic Items from last meetings 20:11:15 There were three items in the last meeting minutes: 20:11:25 1. hugh to work with alan on maharadroid/api stuff before feature freeze 20:11:57 all done 20:12:07 fine! 20:12:15 2. elky to confirm plans with alan 20:12:36 I guess you can't confirm this, aqualaptop, can you? 20:12:55 hrm, do we know whats "plans" were? 20:13:10 i prob can't i'm afaid 20:13:24 I don't. I think I should have had a closer look at the full irc log 20:13:50 Ok, no problem. We'll move it to the pending items for next meeting. 20:14:00 sure 20:14:23 alan doesn't appear to be on our internal irc currently, i pinged elky on there though 20:14:26 no resp 20:14:53 the action item is from the topic about updating code guidelines and extend it to other than php 20:15:07 ah, awesome, i thought that was a few meetings ago :P 20:15:13 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines 20:15:17 it has php, js 20:15:28 and i'm going to put up css with help of our designer 20:15:33 css? 20:15:39 * aqualaptop has had a hard time with all the new themeing reviews 20:15:40 oh... i see 20:15:55 there is also sql that could go up there? 20:16:10 and maybe tpl, though we may change templating engine from smarty 20:16:15 and xml perhaps? 20:16:36 the js one is basically the same as the php one, if anyone can skim over it and let me know, or make changes 20:16:45 the php one could also have an eye 20:16:51 xml could do as well 20:16:55 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines 20:17:24 #info language guidelines to have, php, js, css, tpl, sql, xml 20:17:48 #info If anyone can skim over the Coding guidelines, let Hugh know about changes, suggestions, etc. 20:18:32 ok, so the only remaining item is Kristina's: "kristina, dajan and anzeljg to coordinate and extend anzeljg's spec to work out similarities and differences etc" 20:18:52 I'm going to copy&paste what she emailed me. 20:19:11 But basically, Laurent had already added his thoughts about getting his 20:19:11 oEmbed plugin into core at 20:19:12 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/External_media_block_extension 20:19:42 At that time I had asked him to wait with the implementation until we 20:19:49 had finished the refactoring of the external media block for the safe 20:19:58 iframe admin interface as that changed a few things for 1.6 now. Once we 20:20:04 were done I let him know but haven't received a response so far. When I 20:20:09 saw dajan in Fribourg at the beginning of August, he said he would talk 20:20:13 to Laurent and see if he could put it into the review system. The 20:20:17 earliest integration would be for Mahara 1.7 now as the feature freeze 20:20:21 had been at the beginning of August. 20:20:31 In regard to embed.ly: Anyone can install it, but I would recommend not 20:20:35 making it part of Mahara core as it relies on a third-party and the 20:20:38 availability of their APIs that are not open (if I understand 20:20:41 correctly). I could see a similar problem appearing as with the Google 20:20:45 Apps block where we need to update constantly to keep up. Besides, from 20:20:48 1.6 on you can use the safeiframe admin interface to easily add 20:20:52 additional iframes. And they don't just work in the external media block 20:20:55 but also in journals and text boxes. :-) 20:21:00 That doesn't have anything to do with shared hosting though. Don't know 20:21:03 what anzeljg is referring to there. 20:21:04 .. 20:21:09 That's it! 20:21:23 updated the guidelines page for other languages, just shells for now, but i'll put something in them 20:21:29 wow, that is an email and a half 20:21:29 Kristina talked to me and said that people that are on shared hosting 20:21:53 could not use oembed and that it would be nice for them to have a chance to use embed.ly 20:22:08 .. 20:23:31 So the idea would be to include oEmbed in core, as use embed.ly (as a contributed plugin) for those that can't use oEmbed? 20:23:58 YES, if i understood that correctly 20:24:21 that looks about right 20:24:35 and make use of safe iframes as well 20:24:44 yes, of course. 20:25:11 regarding Google Apps 20:25:23 i think we agreed that we put them out of core 20:25:43 also i'm working on integrating that as a part of cloud plugin 20:25:56 yeh, that is on elky's todo list, make sure that it works with safe-iframes out of box or something 20:25:59 but Google support for embedding things, etc. SUCK!!! 20:26:06 .. 20:26:10 anzeljg: how is your cloud thing going? 20:26:19 what do you mean 20:26:24 there's nothing in the minutes about it (putting it out of core), but I seem to remember that was the general consensus 20:26:42 iarenaza: a meeting before... 20:27:03 i seem to recall that came up in our internal team meeting that she was taking it out, i could be wrong though 20:27:20 #idea Include oEmbed in core (making use of safe iframes), as use embed.ly (as a contributed plugin) for those that can't use oEmbed 20:27:39 #undo 20:27:39 Removing item from minutes: 20:27:57 #idea Include oEmbed in core (making use of safe iframes), and use embed.ly (as a contributed plugin) for those that can't use oEmbed 20:28:04 aqualaptop: basic frame is completed and so is support/integration of Box, Dropbox, SUgarSync, Zotero, WIndows Live SkyDrive 20:28:19 finnishing integration for Google Dive and GitHub... 20:28:29 Evernote on horizon... 20:28:31 .. 20:29:07 nice 20:29:27 alan has appeared on our irc channel, i have asked him if he knows what "plans" are 20:29:32 to hijack a topic :P 20:30:01 no resp though 20:30:44 So coming back to the oEmbed integration, we should ping Laurent 20:31:23 to ask him to make any changes needed for safe iframe integration, 20:31:31 yeh, will have to wait for 1.7 now, but would be good to get it in earlyish 20:31:41 and then put the code in the review system. Is that it? 20:31:59 yup 20:32:05 Do we have an estimate for 1.7 feature freeze date? So we can tell Laurent 20:32:13 feature freeze is feb next year 20:32:19 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle 20:32:24 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle 20:32:35 like clockwork now :D 20:32:36 Ok, that should be enough time. But as you say, the sooner, the better :-) 20:32:51 yeh, less rush on reviewers 20:33:47 I'll contact dajan to get Laurent's contact, and tell him about the plan and dates. 20:34:01 sweet :D 20:34:12 #action iarenaza to contact Laurent (via dajan) and tell him about the plan and the dates. 20:34:24 Shall we move onto the next topic? 20:34:48 sounds good 20:34:51 #topic Supported android versions (and iphone?) for responsive design (2.2?) 20:35:00 all yours aqualaptop :-) 20:35:42 righto, we decided in our internal meeting the other day that we should have support for only some android versions 20:35:59 we threw out the ballpark number of 2.2, which sounds reasonable 20:36:23 yep, 2.1 and lower are a minority now. 20:36:33 i also think we should do the same for iOS, but nfi how that works, /me despises apple 20:36:42 any macfans here? 20:36:49 not me :-) 20:36:56 not me 20:37:09 no 20:37:12 heh 20:37:21 aqualaptop: are you talking about native apps or just web thingie? 20:37:28 shall we just say current - 2, like for android? 20:37:30 oh, sorry 20:37:38 this is for the new responsive design for 1.6 20:38:06 maharadroid is done by alanmc, seperate issue 20:38:15 aqualaptop: just to be sure :-) 20:38:20 don't believe there is an iphone app, but there may, but isn't core 20:38:30 so yeh, this is just the theme, so mobile browser 20:38:32 aqualaptop: yes, there is, by a third party 20:39:28 righto 20:39:32 #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history 20:40:05 so we should upport 5.1.1 20:40:44 there "current" 20:40:53 that sound good to ppl? 20:41:25 i know there are still quite a few iPhone 3G going around. 20:41:54 Don't know how big is the difference between 4.2.1 and 5.1.1. browsers. 20:42:26 But given that resources are limited, 5.1.1 looks like a compromise 20:43:02 good to me 20:43:19 i'll check what android classes 2.2 as 20:43:52 so 2.2 is current - 4 20:44:09 may 10 20:44:28 so 4.2.1 should be reasonable then? 20:44:31 datewise 20:44:42 can't see anything about "supported" with android 20:45:00 it depends on the manufacturer a lot. 20:45:17 or we could up the android one to 2.3? 20:45:43 thouh i think there are a lot of rougue froyo's round 20:46:01 shall we say 2.2 for android, and 4.2.1 for ios 20:46:07 are we primarily targeting phones or tablets? 20:46:08 that is just for 1.6 release 20:46:15 both i believe 20:46:48 cause it makes a (big) difference. Tablets are 3.x and up (except rare units) 20:47:22 but phones have lots and lots of units in 2.3 (and probably 2.2) 20:48:00 i would say have same compatability with both, and then change for 1.7 20:48:21 probably just a "hunch" of what devices are out there 20:48:25 But at the end, it boils down to differences in the shipped browsers. If they are bug-compatible, the os version doesn't matter 20:48:58 yeh, llike i mean, i don't think we have a backwards supported version for chrome and ff? correct me if wrong 20:49:03 though IE can diaf :D 20:49:21 :-) 20:49:45 but i'm pretty sure mahara won't work right on chrome and ff in the low low versions (ie the ones on current debian stable, which can't even open facebook :P) 20:50:14 so, do we agree on 2.2+ for android and 4.2.1+ for ios? 20:50:25 this all came up because one of our testers found a bug in a 2.1 device iirc 20:50:28 #agree 20:50:35 #agree 20:50:36 #agree 20:50:44 #agree 20:50:50 settled 20:51:05 closer to 1.7, we can decide on new versions 20:51:11 but that should be all for now 20:51:13 sure 20:51:15 next topic? 20:51:23 #agreed support responsive design on 2.2+ for android and 4.2.1+ for ios 20:51:45 #topic Testers welcome during RC period (incl new responsive design, as well as other new features) 20:52:02 righto, the next topic will explain the release process a bit more 20:52:10 but the gist is, UI freeze is happening today 20:52:17 then next week a RC will come out 20:52:26 #info UI freeze is happening today 20:52:30 then in 3 weeks after that, 1.6 :D 20:52:50 Whoho! 20:52:51 so, there are lots of new features in 1.6, and lots of UI changes (a responsive design for one!) 20:53:10 #info lots of new features in 1.6, and lots of UI changes 20:53:15 it would be good if we can get ppl to test all this (it has been through review, but that doesn't always catch everythign) 20:53:36 so, when RC comes out, tell friends and family, install it (or upgrade it), and tes test test 20:53:39 and file bugs 20:53:53 and we shall fix any release critical bugs before 1.6 20:54:02 .. 20:54:13 #info when RC comes out, install it (or upgrade it), and test, and file bugs 20:55:14 ok, I'll rather busy during those 3 weeks, but I'll try to upgrade a copy of our production instance and see how it goes. 20:56:03 I'll also spread the word in the Spanish Moot (19-21 Sept) 20:56:39 :D 20:56:55 Any other thing on this topic? 20:57:13 that is all 20:57:26 #topic Next steps for the release 20:57:45 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle 20:57:55 as mentioned before, we have this new release cycle 20:58:16 we've had the feature freeze, and the UI freeze is happening today (NZ time, COB afaik) 20:58:26 next step is 20:58:34 - RC comes out next week 20:58:39 - 3 weeks of testing 20:58:53 during which time any release critical bugs are fixed 20:59:08 - 1st week of october, 16 is released 20:59:14 #info RC comes out next week, then 3 weeks of testing (with only critical bugs fixed) 20:59:39 #info 1st week of october, 1.6 is released 20:59:43 after which, bugs are fixed as normal, most on master, and only things that are critical to 1.6, and point releases made 20:59:48 any questions? 20:59:49 .. 21:00:01 I don't see the release party on the calendar? :-? 21:00:31 how long are new features accepted (for 1.7 i mean) 21:01:00 till about feb next year, same link, shows a cool graphic that elky put up 21:01:01 anzeljg: supposedly until the next feature freeze (feb 2013) 21:01:09 showing holidays and ubuntu releases etc 21:01:30 iarenaza: yeah, what about testing and review? 21:01:30 aqualaptop: very informative indeed! 21:01:50 yeh, she is good at making stuff like that 21:02:09 anzeljg: I guess not pushing to the last minute is always a good idea :-) 21:02:09 i found out yesterday that she has a neat thing that takes all our emails saying who is sick, and puts them in a calendar 21:02:23 yup, submit early, submit often :D 21:02:58 so if you estimate that the testing and review is going to take, say, 2 weeks, better submit it one month before the deadline (just in case) 21:03:21 s/one month before/at least one month before/ 21:03:30 yeh i would say that 21:03:41 any closer, it starts getting prioritized 21:05:25 is there a way to "brive" reviewers to prioritize one's changes? }:-) 21:05:43 brive them, prob not :P 21:05:47 bribe on the other hand 21:05:51 maybe 21:05:58 s/brive/bribe/ (oops!) 21:06:00 make it a cool feature :P 21:07:04 skins?!? (if time permits) 21:07:38 could be cool 21:07:41 anzeljg: that would be cool. But with the new responsive design, that could be tricky 21:07:50 but yes, i think 1.7 features is a topic for another meeting :D 21:08:15 anything else for this topic? anyone? 21:09:03 i would like more info on responsive design (private email please) 21:10:19 ok, so move on to next topic 21:10:22 #topic Next meeting and Chair 21:10:27 anzeljg: flick me an email, hugh@catalyst.net.nz with what you want 21:10:32 i'll volunteer 21:11:25 #action aqualaptop to chair next meeting 21:12:05 I was going to propose Sept, 26 for next meeting, but that's the week before the 1.6 release. 21:12:10 Maybe it's not a good idea. 21:12:18 hrm, maybe the week after 21:12:22 or 2 weeks? 21:12:34 yeah, was thinking the same. 21:12:52 Oct, 17? 21:13:07 fine 21:13:13 fbm 21:13:14 fine for me 21:13:20 time, evening nz this one 21:13:24 07:30 UTC this time 21:13:53 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20121017T0730&msg=21st%20Mahara%20Developer%20Meeting 21:13:57 That would be it? 21:14:54 looks about right 21:14:59 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20121017T0730&msg=21st%20Mahara%20Developer%20Meeting 21:15:34 So we'll move on to the last topic 21:15:38 #topic Any other business 21:15:41 yup 21:15:45 got one 21:15:47 aqualaptop: I think you had one 21:15:55 i'll be quick 21:16:10 so, there is something in the reviews for changing templating system 21:16:18 #link https://reviews.mahara.org/#/q/status:open+project:mahara+branch:master+topic:twig,n,z 21:16:26 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/966001 21:16:41 chris at catalyst was doing this, but he is leaving tomorrow 21:17:00 everybody is leaving?!? 21:17:09 it has been put off for 1.7 (because of the release, not him) 21:17:21 but i think it should get done soon after the release 21:17:31 i'll probably take over it 21:18:00 twig was mostly compatible with dwoo, wasn't it? 21:18:04 he is leaving cat, but has shown interest in sticking round the mahara community, tried to get him here today, but too early :P 21:18:07 anzeljg, it's been one of those years. chris wasn't a core dev so it's not like francois and richard going, thank goodness. 21:18:17 ohai 21:18:22 ohai 21:18:31 hi 21:18:40 so yeh, that is that, mention it at next meeting i guess 21:18:42 .. 21:18:46 hi elky, are you feeling better? 21:18:55 aqualaptop, i have no clue what "plans" were at the moment 21:19:05 lol, was just asking that 21:19:21 iarenaza, trying to :) i have to give a presentation on sunday 21:19:29 ups! 21:19:45 righto, i think that is all AOB for me 21:19:51 anzeljg: 21:20:48 right 21:21:03 I will still be around aqualaptop 21:21:04 some time ago me and Kristina had a talk about PluralForms 21:21:30 there were question in German Translation Community on how to translate PluralForms etc. 21:21:58 I think it is a good idea that we document PluralForms and their usage somewhere on the wiki 21:22:25 #idea document PluralForms and their usage somewhere on the wiki 21:22:31 and also have a list of string that already are PluralForm "compatible" and the ones that shpuld become that... 21:22:31 .. 21:23:06 anzeljg: is PluralForms used outside the German translation? 21:23:45 Slovenian (obviously) 21:24:06 Should be useful for all slavic languages: Czech, Russian, Croatian, etc. 21:24:12 AFAIK 21:24:12 .. 21:24:47 anzeljg: thanks a lot 21:25:25 awesome 21:25:37 anzeljg: do you volunteer to document it? 21:26:09 as you seem to know it quite well :-) 21:26:27 if Kristina will help than yes... 21:26:31 oh yeh, i forgot to link this before 21:26:47 #link http://master-mahara.catalystdemo.net.nz/ (has the responsive theme on it, current with review system) 21:27:00 and will have one more AOB once everyone is done :P 21:27:00 or anybody from Catalyst who knows the strings 21:27:09 ohai? 21:27:22 oh, documentation 21:27:26 swear word 21:27:31 urg 21:27:58 ... 21:27:58 anzeljg: ok, won't make it an action item until you talk to Kristina :-) 21:28:52 no iarenaza, just do the action item 21:28:58 ok 21:29:30 #action anzeljg (with help from someone at Catalyst) will document PluralForms and their usage on the wiki 21:29:44 :) 21:30:15 anyone else? (apart from aqualaptop) 21:31:19 so aqualaptop, all yours again! 21:31:33 swt 21:31:46 right, so, as some of you may of seen if you look at the reviews 21:32:00 i tend to use one site for all of the stuff that needs testing remotely 21:32:19 i was thinking, i could hook up gerrit to our deployment system at catalyst 21:32:40 so that we can deploy a "review" and keep it up to date by "redeploying" it 21:32:58 this allows a quick and easy way to be able to test a new feature etc 21:33:09 will require someone from catalyst to do the button press 21:33:17 but yeh, that is a WIP 21:33:35 and it could be done further by automatically putting in some content etc 21:33:42 .. 21:33:55 sorry, but i'll have to leave 21:33:57 bye 21:34:00 bye anzeljg 21:34:11 cya 21:34:13 bye anzeljg, thanks for coming 21:35:17 oh, and these testing sites will probably have automatic browserid etc set up 21:36:27 but that would be for testers only, right? 21:36:48 anyone who wants to test 21:38:18 Aha. And how would the give feedback to developers/reviewers? via launchpad? gerrit? 21:38:32 gerrit still 21:38:41 so it would be based of a gerrit changeset 21:38:48 exactly same code etc 21:38:57 but just installed somewhere to test easily 21:39:38 and i was thinking (more long term this one), if we actually started sending in test cases, we could test automatically, would still need someone to test manually though 21:39:56 It would be great 21:40:56 that said, this may not happen for a while, dependant on my time 21:40:57 Looks like a plan :-) 21:41:16 but yes, that is all from me now, i on't think any more AOB's for today :P 21:41:24 :-D 21:41:59 So anything else before I close the meeting? 21:42:37 nothing from me 21:42:53 #endmeeting