07:32:36 #startmeeting 07:32:36 Meeting started Tue Dec 6 07:32:36 2011 UTC. The chair is hughdavenport_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 07:32:36 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 07:33:00 #info hughdavenport_ is Hugh Davenport and Brett Wilkins from Catalyst IT Wellington 07:33:02 #info @anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, NZ 07:33:14 #info fmarier is Francois Marier 07:33:15 #info anzeljg is Gregor An�elj, ICT teacher, translator, developer 07:33:17 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, LUNS Limited, UK 07:33:41 #info richardm is Richard Mansfield, Catalyst, NZ 07:33:44 #info elky is Melissa Draper, Catalyst IT, NZ 07:34:53 anyone else, jimcrib lamiette rkabalin waawaamilk dan_p lordp? 07:35:29 right, we'll get into it then 07:35:46 #topic Items from last meeting 07:35:47 #info dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject 07:35:56 please 07:36:00 please please please :P 07:36:00 I've started taking a look at this 07:36:22 We need to modify the .gitattributes file in the release script to get it to exclude only the test directories containing phpunit tests 07:36:43 I've got it to do that, but I'm also trying to get it to exclude empty 'tests' directories 07:36:43 eh? 07:36:56 that's the DONE item that hughdavenport_ skipped :) 07:36:57 The packages are created using git archive 07:37:06 ah 07:37:14 * dobedobedoh needs to read ;) 07:37:17 It's not done though 07:37:17 ah, was I too smart in skipping it :P 07:37:27 oh, shall i go back to that one? 07:37:29 oh - so it is 07:37:34 so i'm not going more crazy, that's good. 07:37:38 sorry, I was reporting on the actual content of the bug 07:37:38 #undo 07:37:38 Removing item from minutes: 07:37:38 well, those who want to discuss it can do so on the bug report I guess 07:37:41 * dobedobedoh is going crazy 07:37:41 #item dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places. DONE 07:37:45 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/897593 07:37:47 #info dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places. DONE 07:37:48 Launchpad bug 897593 in mahara "Update .gitattributes to excluded tests from built releases" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Andrew Nicols (dobedobedoh) 07:38:00 Apologies - please move on! 07:38:14 the action item from last week (creating the bug) is done :) 07:38:19 yup 07:38:21 s/week/month/ 07:38:28 right, will go on then 07:38:31 #info dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject 07:38:33 there's even a patch on gerrit 07:39:09 I've had a look at the Launchpad API and can convert a bug# into a security/not-security 07:39:12 and public/not-public 07:39:17 so that's a start 07:39:32 so it is possible? 07:39:36 that is good news 07:39:39 It is :) 07:39:49 nice, any more to talk on this one? 07:40:09 I haven't got it to play with anything yet - I was thinking it would probably be best on the gerrit server rather than the Makefile 07:40:16 but that's all from me 07:40:22 #info dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker: newfeature tag 07:40:26 next up 07:40:32 dobedobedoh yeah maybe as a server side hook 07:40:46 it would definitely be better on the server 07:40:58 agreed 07:41:27 just realized dajan isn't here 07:41:39 especially since LP is hosted in the wrong hemisphere and can take a while to respond here 07:41:41 well he's done it, so it's awesome 07:41:46 does anyone know about that? fmarier you were tagging things 07:41:54 right 07:41:57 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bugs?field.tag=newfeature 07:41:59 #topic Update on the user manual (Kristina)#link http://manual.mahara.org/ 07:42:05 that's the list of the ones he's tagged 07:42:08 #topic Update on the user manual (Kristina) 07:42:13 #link http://manual.mahara.org/ 07:42:14 As you may have seen in the newsletter from Dec. 1, 2011, we started publishing the new user documentation at http://manual.mahara.org It is been written in reStructuredText and turned into fancy looking HTML (and PDF and ePub) with the help of Sphinx. 07:42:14 #link http://mahara.org/view/artefact.php?artefact=176713&view=36871 - Mahara Newsletter, December 2011 07:42:14 I had abandonded the Asciidoc files and converted them into rST syntax when fmarier showed suggested rST and Sphinx to me. We can also publish directly from git to ReadtheDocs and it should be possible to use Launchpad translations for translating it. :-) That is still under investigation. 07:42:15 The PDF output on RTD isn't updated, but we'll deal with that later. I want to get at least the content as complete as possible. ;-) 07:42:15 #info the mahara 1.4 user manual is written in reStructuredText, converted into HTML / PDF with Sphinx and published from git to ReadtheDocs at updated at http://manual.mahara.org 07:42:15 #link http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html - reStructuredText: Markup syntax and parser system 07:42:15 #link http://sphinx.pocoo.org - Sphinx: software to convert rST files into proper documentations 07:42:16 #link http://readthedocs.org - Read the Docs: community place to search for and search manuals 07:42:16 #link http://readthedocs 07:42:16 When I'm done with the 1.4 manual, it will be updating it to cover the already existing 71 1.5 features. ;-) 07:42:17 That's about covers it what I wanted to say about the manual. 07:42:36 .. 07:42:37 excellent work on that, anitsirk :) 07:42:50 thanks, elky. fmarier helped heaps 07:43:13 a question: is it possible that you create the screnshots also in other languages or are the translators responsible for that? 07:43:19 manual is in git, people can email patches to anitsirk :) 07:43:34 anzeljg: we haven't looked at translations yet, but it's definitely on our list 07:43:49 anzeljg: we haven't looked into that yet and thus don't know how to deal with screenshots 07:44:04 ok 07:44:11 it would be great though 07:44:20 but i have a document for documentation writes which states that screenshots shouldn't contain any text cause that would make translations more difficult in launchpad i think 07:44:35 *writers 07:45:07 if we were to have someone make wireframe svgs, it'd be more translatable, but it would also be confusing for users I think 07:45:24 yeah, but when you create screenshots of Mahara, used in manual, they certainly contain language strings... right? 07:45:26 elky: then it wouldn't look like a mahara screenshot though 07:45:35 i have some svg files that are also in git to adapt those more easily but i'm not converting screenshtos into wireframes 07:45:38 ;-) 07:45:41 fmarier, yep, hence the second part of what i said 07:45:52 we'll get screenshots in the right language, we just don't know how yet because we haven't looked into it 07:45:58 anzeljg: the strings that you see on the screen, yes, but not any step-by-step instructions 07:46:16 i was reffering to the first one 07:46:16 there were a lot of other little details to take care of with the english manual :) 07:47:07 fmarier is right. but i think it is a good solution and it's definitely easy to update the files already in english 07:47:17 i've heard rumors that google is researching how to translate images on the internets, but that will be quite a long way off i'd imagine 07:48:25 * dobedobedoh wonders whether Selenium could be of any use... 07:48:33 i don't trust google traslations too much. they mucked up heinz' newsletter contribution so much that i couldn't link to it... 07:48:57 we haven't looked at any integration with automated tests yet as it's been only me updating the manual 07:49:25 sphinx has a cool summary when it makes the build files and the biggest oopses are returned 07:49:33 dobedobedoh: you mean for taking screenshots automatically? 07:49:44 fmarier: Yup 07:49:51 that's interesting :) 07:49:54 anitsirk, their translations are essentially self-poisoned and they're pulling out of it. however the rumor is that they're looking at the engine to do the translation, something like hand it an image and an xml file and voila 07:50:22 dobedobedoh, that is a great idea. 07:50:29 mhh. let's wait and see, elky. 07:50:41 anitsirk, yeah, i wouldn't go holding my breath for it ;) 07:50:53 heh yeah - I can't see that being easy 07:50:56 mhh. that may not quite work as i do put extra numbers in their to identify the steps 07:51:21 anitsirk, you could provide that as an overlay and something like GD could combine the two layers 07:51:49 * anitsirk wonders if that works in sphinx as everything is compiled in there 07:52:07 we work with our upstreams ;) 07:52:23 i think we're talking about a problem we don't have :) we have translators that diligently take their own screenshots :) 07:52:39 yep, this is a geek tangent for sure :) 07:52:56 yeah and an interesting one I must say 07:53:08 but lets do move on 07:53:19 so moving on? 07:53:40 #topic Changes to the backend password hash function (hugh) 07:53:41 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Improve_Password_Storage 07:54:00 Righto, so I have pushed a few changes to gerrit changing the way we store the hashed passwords 07:54:11 not sure of the numbers atm, as not at my usual computer 07:54:25 but basically have changed it from a sha1 hash to bcrypt 07:54:36 and have added a passwordsaltmain like thing (from moodle) 07:54:47 so if the db is stolen, you can't brute the passwords 07:54:47 there's lots of good stuff in that spec, well worth reading 07:54:50 .. 07:55:21 that sounds like a nice insurance policy 07:55:32 (the last bit) 07:55:38 oh and also, we have a inbetween hash, sha512 for bulk actions, and the upgrade path 07:55:38 Looks good to me 07:55:53 nice 07:55:57 anything more ppl want from that? 07:56:00 yeah you need to steal a dump of the db and a copy of config.php 07:56:17 take a look on gerrit to see what is what, hashtag is passwords iirc 07:56:18 then spend a bit of time generating bcrypt hashes for common passwords 07:56:47 with those lists i tacked onto that bug? 07:56:58 #link https://reviews.mahara.org/#q,status:open+project:mahara+branch:master+topic:password-hash,n,z 07:57:28 thanks fmarier 07:58:27 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/843568 07:58:29 Launchpad bug 843568 in mahara "Stored passwords with a stronger hash algorithm" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Hugh Davenport (hugh-catalyst) 07:58:50 elky what lists you tacked on to the bug? 07:59:18 i forget the bug number, not that bug number 07:59:29 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/844457 07:59:31 Launchpad bug 844457 in mahara "suckypasswords check is very limited, could be expanded" [Wishlist,Triaged] 07:59:33 ^^^ that one 07:59:43 yeah, thanks fmarier, was still looking 07:59:45 ah right 07:59:52 * hughdavenport_ is less confused 08:00:00 heh 08:00:24 right, anything more? 08:01:19 #topic Large bug triage and 1.5.0 (Francois) 08:01:20 #link https://launchpad.net/mahara/+milestone/1.5.0 08:01:26 fmarier take the stage 08:01:33 so you may have seen a large number of bug updates :) 08:01:51 the email aftermath anyway 08:01:53 i've gone through all of the outstanding bugs on the tracker 08:01:54 yes :P 08:01:55 * anitsirk hasn't yet waded through the awesomeness yet :-( 08:02:23 by outstanding you mean not-milestoned? 08:02:29 have normalized the tags, found duplicates and adjusted the prioties / milestones of a few 08:02:38 elky: no, all the ones that are not "fix released" 08:02:49 ah 08:02:49 long job 08:02:59 yeh good job 08:03:29 how's the RSI? 08:03:38 the reason why i wanted to bring this up is that i have pre-triaged the list for the 1.5 milestone 08:03:39 what's RSI? 08:03:47 repetitive strain injury 08:03:47 anitsirk: repetitive stress injury 08:03:49 Repetitive Strain Injury 08:03:59 thanks 08:04:26 so if you think there's something missing on 1.5 and that you can do in the next month or two, then please feel free to add it there 08:05:03 fmarier, i'm noticing we now have several android related issues. perhaps we need to find some way we can test those better 08:05:09 also, if you have something allocated to you, please consider whether or not you will have time to do it in the next month and if not, consider unassigning yourself from it 08:05:55 "next" month" is probably a bit short or would need to be a bit longer with the holidays and all 08:06:09 i think that many people wanted to have an early freeze date next year, so it would be good to bring that list of bugs down 08:06:09 "221 Fix Committed" 08:06:12 niiiice 08:06:47 anything else with this topic? 08:06:53 #info fmarier pre-triaged the list of bugs for the 1.5 milestone 08:06:55 but basically, have a look, make sure none of your pet bugs are missing 08:07:42 It'd be good if we had a list of tags that we actively use 08:07:46 #info if you are allocated to a bug but cannot get to it within the next month, please unassign yourself. 08:07:49 So that we don't undo all of your work 08:08:06 #info if you think there's something missing on 1.5 and that you can do in the next month or two, then please feel free to add it there 08:08:14 dobedobedoh: there is on this page: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara 08:08:15 dobedobedoh, they seem to be more readable in the right-column of the main bugs area now 08:08:18 there is an official tags list, ekly found it 08:08:27 click on "show more tags" 08:08:28 good spelling of elky for me 08:08:36 hehe 08:08:46 ah yes 08:08:50 * dobedobedoh was looking in the wrong place 08:08:58 also there is auto-completion of some of the most common tags 08:09:21 * dobedobedoh grrs at the 'Show less tags' 08:09:30 what i did while triaging them was to enter a tag, then save and click on it to see how many bugs showed up 08:09:35 oh. the tag cloud was converted into a list 08:09:36 There are tags missing from that list I know are used 08:09:44 it really helps finding duplicate bugs 08:10:18 dobedobedoh: yeah, i only made the most common ones "official" because otherwise the list was too long 08:10:34 Ah okay 08:10:51 but if you think i've missed important ones, feel free to add them 08:11:08 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+manage-official-tags 08:11:25 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+manage-official-tags 08:11:29 there are still a few that need to be cleaned up on there 08:13:05 #info there are now official tags for mahara. only the most common ones are listed in the official tag list at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara 08:13:18 i guess that topic is done now 08:13:38 #topic Next meeting and Chair 08:13:43 I suggest Wednesday, 11 January 2012 at 07:30:00 UTC time 08:13:44 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20120111T0730 08:13:51 thoughts? 08:13:51 hughdavenport_: how about late jan instead? 08:14:08 with christmans & all, there won't be too much to talk about i reckon 08:14:32 or feb, so we don't have a meeting then another one two weeks after? 08:14:49 bug +1's my last 08:14:52 agree 08:14:56 hughdavenport_: well we can have one end of jan, then one end of feb 08:15:11 End of Feb wfm 08:15:13 and end of jan 08:15:15 so we just go to end of month from now? 08:15:16 +1 fmarier 08:15:22 but first weeek of feb works for me too 08:15:35 hughdavenport: i think we've done that before 08:15:47 hughdavenport_: we're not all that regular, it's every 4-5 weeks roughly i think 08:16:13 So 19:30 UTC on what day? 08:16:14 so how about tuesday 31 jan or feb 1 ? 08:16:27 Feb 1st -1 for me ;) 08:16:45 should work either date 08:16:50 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20110201T0730 08:17:16 but we usually alternate the mornings and evenings 08:17:20 ah yes 08:17:25 it should be NZ morning 08:17:38 #undo 08:17:38 Removing item from minutes: 08:17:41 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20110201T1930 08:17:50 feb 1st 1930 UTC 08:17:58 that way the americans may be able to join in. i'll let them know at the MUG meeting in january 08:17:58 So it'll be 1st feb for you guys after all 08:18:05 dobedobedoh said he didn't want feb 1 08:18:07 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20120131T1930 08:18:11 ^^^ 31 jan 08:18:15 I can do 1st feb if it's not 1st feb here ;) 08:18:39 that last one is 31 jan UTC 08:18:46 is it your birthday with all the smileys you include, dobedobedoh ? 08:19:00 heh yup 08:19:06 :-D 08:19:35 what more could you hope for on your birthday than to take part in a mahara dev meeting? ;-) 08:19:45 :-p 08:19:49 :-D 08:19:53 +1 for that meeting date and time 08:19:56 +1 08:19:58 +1 08:20:16 +2 08:20:33 +1 08:20:35 hughdavenport_: is that a veto? ;) 08:20:39 +1 08:20:44 nah. that's just bugg as well 08:20:48 fmarier i have bugg 08:20:51 +1 08:20:59 ah right, i forgot about your silent side-kick 08:21:05 yup 08:21:08 he is talking 08:21:20 we are enjoying some refreshments :D 08:21:20 and we don't hear it, so he's silent :P 08:21:32 timesheetable pub visit? 08:21:41 elky do you hear anything on this? 08:21:42 hughdavenport_: training for the zoodoo i take it? 08:21:45 and yup :D 08:21:49 *2 08:21:52 *4 i should say 08:22:06 right anyway i think we are agreed 08:22:11 yup 08:22:17 chair? 08:22:18 dobedobedoh: by the time we have the next meeting, dan_p will be working for Martin right? 08:22:24 I think so yes 08:22:30 But he'll be in the UK still 08:22:51 bugg wants to chair sometime, but probably nz evening 08:22:57 hehe 08:23:22 i can chair. 8:30 is late ;-) 08:23:37 fine by me :) 08:23:41 07:30 was early for me 08:23:45 +1 08:24:22 we agreed, 31 Jan 1930 UTC anitsirk chairing? 08:24:27 +1 08:24:38 wfm 08:24:42 i think so 08:24:50 #info Next meeting 31 Jan 1930 UTC anitsirk chairing 08:24:51 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20120131T1930 08:25:02 #topic Any other business? 08:25:09 I've got two... 08:25:11 got one 08:25:38 anzeljg: you go first 08:25:51 First: Just as a reminder - what is the status of PluralForms? 08:26:19 Second: I'm working on integrating GoogleWebFonts, this part is almost complete. 08:26:34 ooo, exciting 08:26:35 i personally lost track of where we got with PluralForms 08:26:44 anzeljg: wrt plural forms, i was waiting for you to approve my patch! 08:26:58 somewhere on github i think 08:26:59 And just started working on LivePreview when user designs a custom Skin... 08:27:12 Please have a look at: 08:27:21 #link http://screencast.com/t/cWrdGaNz4mU 08:27:30 Feedback welcome... 08:27:53 right, that all from you anzeljg ? 08:27:59 richardm: I think that was OK. Will have another look. Can you please send me the link to the patch again... 08:28:00 #info anzeljg started working on LivePreview when user designs a custom Skin http://screencast.com/t/cWrdGaNz4mU and welcomes feedback 08:28:20 #info anzeljg almost finished integrating GoogleWebFonts 08:28:52 my one thing: i wish you all happy holidays and a good start into 2012 :-) I know it's still a few weeks away, but anyways 08:28:55 anitsirk: you next 08:29:06 done 08:29:07 oh, thanks heaps! 08:29:08 aww 08:29:09 you too 08:29:26 any final final business? 08:29:42 nope 08:29:51 #endmeeting