07:31:14 #startmeeting 07:31:14 Meeting started Wed May 25 07:31:14 2011 UTC. The chair is iarenaza. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 07:31:14 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 07:31:26 #topic Meeting attendees 07:31:32 #info iarenaza is Iñaki Arenaza 07:31:45 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner 07:32:01 #info anzeljg is Gregor An�elj 07:32:06 #info rkabalin_ is Ruslan Kabalin, LUNS Ltd., UK 07:32:07 #info Andrew Nicols - LUNS Litd, UK 07:32:14 #info fmarier is Francois Marier 07:32:24 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK 07:32:28 #info dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK 07:32:54 #info richardm is Richard Mansfield 07:33:14 I think that's everybody 07:33:17 #info lordp is Darryl Hamilton 07:33:30 Sorry I'm late :) 07:33:35 hi darryl 07:33:38 lordp: no problem :) 07:33:54 Anyone else? 07:34:14 ok, let's go for the first topic. 07:34:19 before we start 07:34:26 yes? 07:34:33 i just want to remind people (especially those who weren't there last time) 07:34:37 about the .. thingie 07:34:44 ok, good idea! 07:34:53 basically, if you can put ".." on a line by itself when you're done talking 07:35:01 that will help show people that you're done 07:35:17 so that we don't wait for you if we were waiting to avoid cutting you off 07:35:20 .. 07:35:31 nice 07:35:47 #topic Items from previous meeting 07:36:14 #info rkabalin fill in more details about improving objectionable content 07:36:40 right 07:37:10 I did not add anything else to https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Objectionable_content_reporting 07:37:44 Do you plan to add anything else or shall we close the topic as done? 07:37:46 rkabalin_: it looks fairly complete already 07:37:50 just because we do not implement it right now and I do not really think about particular implementation 07:38:46 I think it will be extended once me or someone else decise to start with designing that feature 07:38:50 .. 07:39:06 that sounds good 07:39:19 iarenaza: yes please close it for now 07:39:23 If so, we can bring the topic again then. 07:39:39 rkabalin_ ok 07:40:02 i don't think it needs to stay on the meeting agenda, it's on the wiki already 07:40:50 #agreed details about improving objectionable content are enough so far. We'll bring the topic again when someone starts designing that feature 07:41:02 #info fmarier_ ping wiki contributors one last time and then make the license change 07:41:07 This should be fast :) 07:41:12 done :D 07:41:23 basically nobody objected 07:41:28 #info fmarier_ investigate whether gerrit could have a hook that would add a note to launchpad (with a link to the gerrit changeset) for patchsets that got merged and mentioned a bug number 07:41:32 very few people didn't respond after the second ping 07:41:52 the answer to that second one is yes, it can be done 07:42:15 i've got a script already for it 07:42:21 and right now it sends emails to me 07:42:40 all i need to do to finish this off is to GPG-sign the emails and then send them to Launchpad 07:42:51 #info fmarier says gerrit can have a hook to add a note to launchpad (already has a script for it). 07:43:13 #info only missing part is GPG-signing the emails and sending them to launchpad 07:43:21 good! 07:43:45 related to the previous, 07:43:47 #info fmarier_ investigate hook to send an email to patchset submitter once it's been merged (to remind them to update bug status in tracker) 07:43:57 here's a sample email: http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/98033d 07:44:09 when the commit has a bug number, it gets extracted properly 07:44:27 #info sample email for the gerrit hook http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/98033d 07:44:28 that one wasn't the best example, but trust me, it works ;-) 07:44:30 .. 07:45:05 fmarier: that example is for the launchpad email, isn't it? 07:45:13 yes 07:45:27 the email to launchpad will be an abridged version of that 07:45:28 * elky waves hi 07:45:44 ok, just to be clear (as the other pending item is also about emailing the patchset submitter) 07:45:52 .. 07:46:20 i'm not entirely sure that one is necessary 07:46:31 because as the patch submitter you'll get emails from gerrit 07:46:43 hi elky 07:46:48 and you'll be assigned to the bug on the tracker so you'll get an email when gerrit sends a note to the tracker 07:47:03 so you'll probably be getting enough of a notice already 07:47:03 .. 07:47:34 fair enough. So we can drop the item from the pending list too :-) 07:47:45 sure 07:47:49 The e-mail throughput has gone up quite a bit thanks to gerrit and jenkins 07:48:16 thank goodness for filters, dobedobedoh :-) 07:48:18 #info Don't send any email to patchset submitter once it's been merged (she already gets a lot of them from the tracker :-) 07:48:19 yes, i wrote some procmail filters on my end :) 07:48:53 Next item 07:48:58 iarenaza: you can skip that next one 07:49:01 it's already on the agenda 07:49:04 sorry, I have not got it completely, the email to launchpad will mark the bug as commited automatically or not 07:49:13 fmarier: ok 07:49:22 rkabalin_: no it will just say that it was reviewed and merged 07:49:33 it's still up to a human to change the status 07:49:46 it will say that in the bug comments? 07:49:47 we could potentially change that, but let's see how it goes first 07:50:04 it will say something like the email i posted earlier 07:50:28 ok 07:50:45 basically what the email has currently minus the bug number 07:51:00 I agree with fmarier, let's see how it goes first 07:51:04 I see, thanks fmarier 07:51:10 Will it send multiple e-mails -- one for each branch? 07:51:25 dobedobedoh: yes 07:51:37 one email per changeset merged by gerrit 07:51:49 to all of the bugs that are mentioned in the commit msg 07:51:54 .. 07:52:51 #info The hook from gerrit will send one email per changeset merged by gerrit to all of the bugs mentioned in the commit msg 07:53:08 #info that means one for each branch 07:53:42 Any other questions about this? 07:54:03 okey, next item 07:54:10 #info anitsirk proceed with asciidoc trial and come up with more info 07:54:29 mhh. i thought we had just moved that to the wiki. 07:54:58 i got on git and gerrit thanks to fmarier, but i haven't had the time to look into moving the documentation. 07:54:59 .. 07:55:47 it's on here: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Current_Tasks 07:56:04 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Current_Tasks 07:56:21 finally got here, sorry i'm late 07:56:50 Also, if there's feedback to give on the dev docs rearrangement, please don't hold back 07:57:41 yeah we should talk about elky's great work on the dev area of the wiki during "any other business" 07:58:16 #info elky has done a great work on the dev area of the wiki 07:58:37 #info don't hesitate to give feedback about it! 07:59:12 <-- melissa draper, i don't think i've been introduced? 07:59:31 #info elky is Melissa Draper 08:00:17 So to sum it up: the manual in in git and asciidoc is the markup language we will use. Is this right? 08:00:29 s/in in/is in/ 08:00:50 iarenaza: except it's not started yet 08:00:57 so right now it's an empty git repo 08:01:11 I know :) 08:01:24 #link future home of the Mahara manual: https://www.gitorious.org/mahara/manual 08:01:40 But at least we have decided which tools to use, haven't we? 08:02:04 Is it going to be user manual or developer manual? 08:02:08 i would start with asciidoc as it doesn't require XML markup when writing. 08:02:12 it is the user manual, anzeljg 08:02:30 but it can still output to docbook, PDF, HTML etc. 08:02:34 anitsirk: I think asciidoc should be good enough for most purposes 08:02:40 anzeljg: the developer docs will stay on the wiki 08:02:48 i think so, too. 08:03:13 anitsirk: docbook-xml is more flexible, but it's a bit daunting at first :-) 08:04:01 Anyone against using asciidoc? :-) 08:04:25 no, did we consider texinfo? 08:04:40 I don't remember anyone proposing it 08:04:40 .. 08:05:07 rkabalin_: i don't think so 08:05:23 i hadn't looked at that. fmarier had a tip for publican, but that was again a lot of xml that is not so easy to read when you want to review what you've written 08:05:27 .. 08:05:51 tex would be great for printed stuff, but not so much for the online version i suspect 08:06:01 might worth checking if suits better in fact 08:06:09 and publican is a set of tools for docbook as far as I know 08:06:09 http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-03-23-07.31.log.html <-- we discussed it at about 08:55 08:06:19 and I did mention texinfo, but it wasn't really discussed more than that 08:06:25 i think in asciidoc you can import tex 08:06:36 texinfo can generate html relatively nicely 08:06:48 texinfo != tex 08:06:58 all Linux HOWTO is designed using texinfo 08:07:10 ah ok, i don't know what texinfo is then 08:07:11 s/ia/are 08:07:19 or rather i've never seen a source file 08:07:49 fmarier: is the GNU project documentation markup language for most of their software. 08:07:58 i propose that whoever has an opinion about what the manual should use should get in touch with anitsirk 08:08:11 and then she gets to decide what she thinks is the best 08:08:16 yep 08:08:18 http://www.at.xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/texinfo_25.html is an example 08:08:23 afterall, she'll be doing the bulk of the work on it 08:08:23 #info whoever has an opinion about what the manual should use should get in touch with anitsirk 08:08:24 But it's possible to include sub-files 08:08:24 .. 08:08:40 as i'll be writing / converting most of it in the beginning ;-) 08:08:40 .. 08:09:14 #info some alternatives proposed include asciidoc and texinfo 08:09:26 #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texinfo 08:09:39 The texinfo site is currently down (typically) 08:09:48 ls 08:09:48 not a good sign ;-) 08:09:56 first time I've seen it down actually 08:09:57 #info anitsirk gets to decide what she thinks is the best as she'll be doing the bulk of the work on it 08:10:26 iarenaza: that last thing was a suggestion, do other people agree? 08:10:37 I agree :) 08:10:42 agree 08:10:43 me too 08:11:00 For the most part 08:11:27 agree 08:11:27 I should think that asciidoc is fine :) 08:11:39 agree 08:12:14 alright, it's all yours anitsirk :) 08:12:37 #agreed anitsirk gets to decide what markup language is the best as she'll be doing the bulk of the work on it 08:12:40 #save 08:12:45 alright. i'll do my best to have something soon. 08:13:27 Shall we move onto next item? 08:13:33 i think so 08:13:47 ok 08:13:50 #info richardm have a look at launchpad translation tool and discuss whether or not to try to find funding to port AMOS 08:14:23 ah, well we have all the po file scripts done, and fmarier has tested launchpad with another project 08:14:30 fmarier: care to comment? 08:14:50 #info richardm says they have all the po file scripts done, and fmarier has tested launchpad with another project 08:15:14 we'll test it for real when we import the maori translation i guess 08:15:59 #info we're almost there, still need a little more time, and it's probably not worth spending too much on amos yet 08:16:21 ok 08:16:46 iarenaza: would you care to be the launchpad guinea pig? 08:16:53 if you want to have a play with the translation interface, you can have a look here: https://translations.launchpad.net/libravatar/trunk/+translations 08:17:14 richardm: ok 08:17:16 iarenaza: perhaps helping out the spanish & basque translators 08:17:20 feel free to contribute a translation to that project ;-) 08:17:24 iarenaza: that would be great 08:18:02 #info iarenaza to be a launchpad translation guinea pig 08:18:03 #action richardm to send es, eu .po files to iarenaza so translators can start 08:18:16 richardm: you don't need to send them po files 08:18:18 fmarier: as german is already on the list, i should definitely try it out. learning by doing. :-D 08:18:21 they can get them from launchpad 08:18:39 fmarier: they're already up? 08:18:41 cool 08:18:54 anitsirk: the list of languages that show up there are the ones that you have configured in your launchpad account 08:18:55 I would also like to try with sl language 08:19:13 https://launchpad.net/~fmarier/+editlanguages 08:19:21 ^^^ replace fmarier with your launchpad username 08:19:23 ah. makes sense that i see that immediately 08:19:49 but launchpad does a first pass automatically based on translations from other projects hosted on launchpad 08:20:02 it works for really simple things 08:20:13 but for more complicated ones, you need to write it yourself 08:20:24 fmarier, haha, nice plug. 08:20:51 richardm: we'll need to do an import of the POT file to launchpad before iarenaza can get started 08:20:59 #action iarenaza anitsirk and anzeljg to start working on launchpad translations for .es, .eu, .de and .sl 08:21:21 fmarier: yeah ok will do 08:21:40 richardm: it would be good to investigate the auto-imports as well 08:21:54 uff, iarenaza i only said i'd check it out. ;-) 08:21:59 Just to clarify - we'll be translating Mahara or Launchpad? I'm confused... 08:22:03 #undo 08:22:03 Removing item from minutes: 08:22:07 because we don't want to be uploading manual pot files everytime someone adds a langstring 08:22:08 the only thing is we can't really have both the old mahara langpacks & .po langpacks both beign updated at once 08:22:13 anitsirk: listo! :) 08:22:24 anzeljg: translating mahara using the translation tool on Launchpad.net 08:22:30 cool 08:22:38 it will be here once we have set it up correctly: https://translations.launchpad.net/mahara/trunk/+translations 08:23:11 the other link i gave was an example of what it looks like when it's enabled: https://translations.launchpad.net/libravatar/trunk/+translations 08:23:20 but it's for a different project of mine 08:23:21 .. 08:23:27 now i get it ;) 08:24:05 #action iarenaza anitsirk and anzeljg to check out how launchpad translations work 08:24:13 anitsirk: better like that? 08:24:19 that's better. thanks :-) 08:24:55 what else have we got from previous meetings? 08:25:07 Nothing else, that I know of. 08:25:28 cool, so we can move to your agenda item then I guess 08:25:41 ok 08:25:44 I have one 08:25:56 dobedobedoh: go ahead 08:26:03 dobedobedoh to beg/borrow/steal/invent a forum code of conduct and place on the wiki 08:26:07 It's now there!!! 08:26:15 dobedobedoh: well done!!! 08:26:21 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Code_of_Conduct 08:26:44 #info dobedobedoh has put the forum code of conduct at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Code_of_Conduct 08:26:54 hmm, oddly familiar ;) 08:26:57 which of beg/borrow/steal/invent did you use? ;) 08:27:15 looks like steal to me :P 08:27:19 "About this Code of Conduct" elky :-) 08:27:21 XD 08:27:39 it's CC BY-SA in the original 08:27:41 anitsirk, i know it rather intimately 08:27:42 I stole the Ubuntu Code of Conduct (under CCAS license) and adjusted it accordingly, attributing it back to them 08:28:05 there's a typo: wbich is licensed under the 08:28:16 that is great, thanks dobedobedoh 08:28:30 #info it's based on the Ubuntu Code of Conduct (under CCAS license) 08:28:56 what typo ;) 08:29:13 #link http://mahara.org/terms.php 08:29:18 ^^^ just before account expiry 08:29:30 faster tha me... ;) 08:30:23 Ok, anything else before we move to next agenda topic? 08:30:28 good job dobedobedoh 08:31:00 we've also stolen our trademark policy from Ubuntu: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Marketing/Trademark_Policy 08:31:12 Sorry that it's taken me so long 08:31:18 why inventing the wheel??? 08:31:46 #info fmarier says our trademark policy is also "stolen" from Ubuntu 08:31:51 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Marketing/Trademark_Policy 08:32:12 stolen with their explicit permission :) 08:32:30 That's why I used the quotation marks :-) 08:33:15 Ok, next topic (this time for real :-)) 08:33:32 #topic Walled Gardens status? 08:33:57 interesting topic ;) 08:34:13 I hoped the walled gardens feature would make it to 1.4, but it hasn't 08:34:28 so I wonder what's the status of it :) 08:34:46 could it be merged in small chunks? 08:34:50 is it planned for 1.5? later? 08:34:53 i mean it's quite a daunting task 08:35:18 we did not have time to review it before 1.4 unfortinately 08:35:46 we may aim it to 1.5 08:36:15 that will tie in nicely with the 1.5 agenda item :) 08:36:56 fmarier: it is difficult to merge it in a small chunks I think, it is interweaved with too many things 08:37:08 I'm not proposing to get it 1.5 (there can be other priorities), I just wanted to know what's the plan for it. 08:37:47 BRB 08:38:35 #info The patch is difficult to merge in small chunks, as it is interweaved with too many things 08:38:42 rkabalin_: it sounds like we would need to take a good look at it and then have a meeting to plan how we'll go about merging it 08:38:45 I think that gerrit will probably make life simpler 08:39:03 I am going to present Walled garden on maharaUK11, it might be that someone will be interested to fund revision and merging 08:39:03 it there are any dependencies that can be merged separately though that would be a good thing to do first 08:39:04 but I think that it will require some effort from both LUNS and catalyst 08:39:28 There are a couple of related features which allow per-institution disabling of plugins for example 08:39:47 i would also like to suggest that we avoid the phrase "walled garden" as it has a very negative connotation 08:39:59 #info fmarier says they could take a good look at it and then have a meeting to plan how they'll go about merging it 08:39:59 fmarier: good point 08:40:18 #fmarier also suggests that we avoid the phrase "walled garden" as it has a very negative connotation 08:40:20 Since its been a while since it was written - and was also was done at speed, I think we at LUNS should do an internal review 08:40:21 i've put down "fully separated institutions" on the wiki somewhere 08:40:25 I was just about to suggest remaing it to Isolated Institutions 08:40:33 yeah isolated is good too 08:40:43 fmarier: yes, at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Current_Tasks 08:41:07 I am going to use Isolated Institutions term in my presentation 08:41:24 rkabalin_: feel free to update the above page with the new name too 08:41:29 (the current tasks page) 08:41:34 yep 08:42:17 #action rkabalin_ update relevant pages to use Isolated institutions instead of Walled Garden 08:43:07 So from now on, we all should refer to it as "Isolated Institutions" everywhere, shouldn't we? 08:43:18 that sounds good to me 08:43:29 I'm back... 08:43:36 Can I add an agree item with that proposal? 08:44:01 dobedobedoh: didn't you have some patches for institution configuration? that would be a good thing to start with in terms of submiting to gerrit 08:44:17 dan_p: and probably we need to update it with master before asking catalyst to looking into it 08:44:40 iarenaza: yes, go ahead 08:44:56 richardm: Yup - I had those too 08:45:01 They should merge relatively easily 08:45:31 also, as a side note, we (catalyst) are very busy until the end of June 08:45:49 with the 1.4 release and a bunch of new 1.5 features 08:45:53 fmarier: this is something we'd really like to coordinate with 08:45:59 I guess it'll depend upon the 1.5 release cycle too? 08:46:05 so i would suggest bringing that up in July 08:46:07 .. 08:46:24 fmarier: not really much point us updating for merge if you guys doont have time to look at it 08:46:43 #agreed Use the term "Isolated Institutions" everywhere, instead of "Walled Gardens" 08:47:08 dan_p: there's a lot of point in trying to split the feature up into nice reviewable bits! 08:47:14 dan_p: i agree. let's park it until July but feel free to submit the dependencies before then 08:47:38 (the dependencies that dobedobedoh was talking about) 08:48:41 #info The review will probably wait until July (due to work load) 08:49:26 i have to go 08:49:38 also we might find someone on the conference who will be interested in speeding it up ;) (which is the end of June) 08:49:45 have a nice day, dan_p 08:49:50 bye dan_p 08:49:51 thanks for coming dan_p 08:49:54 bye dan_p 08:50:07 iarenaza: does this answer your question about the status of it? 08:50:19 completely! :-) 08:50:51 next topic 08:51:14 #topic Guide on how to do code reviews 08:51:17 #save 08:51:30 fmarier: all yours 08:51:38 so this is related to the action item i had from the last meeting 08:51:55 i have put my thoughts (based on the reviews i've done and seen other people do) here: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/How_to_Review_Code 08:52:02 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/How_to_Review_Code 08:52:15 basically if other reviewers could have a look at it and add what's missing, that would be great 08:52:34 yeah looks good fmarier. might add some stuff to it, like small patches! 08:52:35 if you disagree with something that someone has added, then discuss with them and/or on the developer forum 08:52:52 .. 08:53:03 #info if you disagree with something that someone has added, then discuss with them and/or on the developer forum 08:53:33 richardm: maybe just linking to https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Contributing_Code#Preparing_.2F_organising_your_changes ? 08:53:53 fmarier: awesome! 08:54:20 #info see also https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Contributing_Code 08:54:49 that's pretty much all i had for this topic 08:54:51 Is it worth adding a link to it in Gerrit too? 08:55:07 please contribute to the page :) 08:55:09 dobedobedoh: I'd say that's a good idea :) 08:55:12 dobedobedoh: good point 08:55:13 ah yeah a link in gerrit would be great 08:55:18 i will add one 08:55:55 it probably should mention that +2 is only allowed to "reviewers" 08:56:14 #action fmarier to add a link in gerrit pointing to the review guide 08:56:15 yeah, the first of that kind of word under each linkable heading ought to be linkified. 08:56:32 what should be done if i come across a commit that uses old language strings and should be changed? would that be a new commit even if it is just a couple of words? 08:56:34 (in the wiki, that is) 08:56:38 rkabalin_: that's on this page: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Code_Review 08:56:48 iarenaza: that action item is done already :) 08:57:22 anitsirk: i'm not sure i understand what you mean 08:57:25 #undo 08:57:25 Removing item from minutes: 08:57:29 Might be worth adding a link to https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Contributing_Code in gerrit too while you're at it 08:57:50 anitsirk, you mean a new patchset under an existing change-id? 08:57:52 dobedobedoh: you mean on reviews.mahara.org itself? 08:57:57 fmarier: yes, but that is not obvious for the newcomer. And nothing said about verify 08:58:08 fmarier: in brett's commit for the External Video block i would exchange video for media thus reading "External media" block because now that we have glogster etc. it's not just video anymore 08:58:33 fmarier: Yup 08:58:58 anitsirk: then I think we should reject the commit in gerrit and ask for a new patchset using the right language string 08:58:59 fmarier: It'd be good to make relevant information really easily available to make it easier for people to get involved 08:59:02 elky: i don't know if that's it 08:59:18 elky: That sounds right 08:59:41 #action fmarier to link to the "how to review" page in the gerrit page header 09:00:19 anitsirk: you should ask the submitter for that. i don't think taking over someone else's changeset is good practice 09:00:24 but the language strings affect other patches as well. so it may be an overarching thing rather than for just one patch. e.g. if one patch is to add glogster to the video block and another is prezi, then the language string affects both 09:00:33 but it's a valid reason to -1 a code review 09:00:51 just like iarenaza said... 09:00:52 i wouldn't want to take anyone's changes over. ;-) 09:00:58 * fmarier catches up with the irc log 09:01:04 anitsirk, iirc that means there's too much change in a single commit ;) 09:01:35 We are just over an hour and a half, is it ok for everyone to extend the meeting? (just in case someone needs to go) 09:01:41 dobedobedoh: regarding making the relevant info easy to find, what exactly do you have in mind? 09:01:46 and if the code has been merged already, it would be a new patch because then it could be fixed for all? 09:02:09 because elky has been working on that : https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area 09:02:10 prezi can be embeded with embed.ly also... 09:02:17 Just a link to the pages on how to review, and to the contributing code page 09:02:26 reorganising and cleanup the developer section 09:02:37 anitsirk: if it's been merged, there's nothing you can do in the review stage any more :) 09:02:39 .. 09:02:40 dobedobedoh: right, from gerrit itself 09:02:56 by working he means a lot of staring at the screen going "wth, where do i separate this?" 09:02:59 iarenaza: i learned that yesterday :-) 09:03:28 anitsirk: you file a new bug, fix it and submit the fix for review. That's all you can do. 09:03:30 .. 09:03:56 sounds good to me. thanks. 09:04:21