19:33:27 #startmeeting 19:33:27 Meeting started Tue Jan 31 19:33:27 2012 UTC. The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:33:27 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:33:34 Good morning, afternoon and evening. Welcome to the 14th Mahara developer meeting. 19:33:34 Please state your IRC nickname and name (and organization you work for and location) with a #info at the beginning of the line. 19:33:35 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ 19:33:58 'info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Limited, Lancaster, UK 19:34:00 #info richardm is Richard Mansfield, Catalyst IT, Wgtn NZ 19:34:00 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Limited, Lancaster, UK 19:34:06 #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, LUNS Ltd., Lancaster, UK 19:34:11 #info hugh_home is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT, Wgtn NZ 19:34:48 hi gerry_. we just started with the introductions, please state your name and location prefixed with #info 19:35:11 As we are all busy, I'd like to propose that we limit our meeting to a maximum of 2 hours. With only 3 big agenda items that might seem like a lot. Therefore, let's see if we can tackle everything even in about 1 hour allowing about 20 min for each of the big items. I'll keep an eye on the watch. 19:35:22 We didn't have any action items open from our last meeting. So we can go right into the new items. :-) 19:35:23 #info John Pace University, NY 19:35:25 #ino Gerry Pauline, Pace University, Mgr, Applications Development 19:35:49 Hi John_____ and gerry_ great to see you here. :-) 19:35:59 Please keep in mind that when you have a long statement broken up over several lines, please put .. on a separate line when you are done. 19:36:02 .. 19:36:18 as elky is not here yet, i think, we'll start with richardm 19:36:20 #topic Freeze date for the 1.5 release (richardm) 19:36:26 go ahead, richardm 19:36:48 So we proposed 1 Feb at the last meeting for the date when we stop putting new features in for 1.5 19:37:34 #idea: feature freeze for mahara 1.5 (not release date!) on february 1, 2012 19:37:58 Does anyone have any objections to that? 19:38:10 Seems fine to me 19:38:18 hello Beth_ :-) 19:38:26 It's not really supposed to be a hard date, exactly, we can still put through most of what's in the pipeline 19:38:37 that's today for you guys? 19:38:56 Yeah 19:39:01 I agree, freexing on Feb 1st is fine with me 19:39:07 #info Beth from Pace University, NY 19:39:13 I don't think we'd be looking at branching yet 19:39:41 More that people keep new features in their own branches for a while & stop putting new large features into gerrit 19:40:03 We still have quite a few bugs to fix as well 19:40:05 It's a shame we have't gotten more done on the unit testing, but most of the infrastructure is in place for doing so in the future 19:40:26 hmmm, why not branching freeze? 19:40:53 well we could do that, but it's easier if we can fix the remaining bugs on one branch 19:41:10 which will allow not to restrict master from any sort of features 19:41:20 Yeah when a new feature is imminent, we'll have to branch anyway 19:41:40 are you currently working on any features, dobedobedoh and rkabalin1 that you'd like to get into 1.5? 19:41:55 freezing by branching is a good practice IMHO, for 1.4 fmarier created the branch AFAIK 19:41:56 fmarier made a list of bugs he thought should definitely go in, and others that could be delayed to 1.6 19:42:22 no - nothing at present 19:42:29 richardm: are these the three bugs that are on the agenda? 19:42:44 yeah https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/2012-01-31 19:43:06 I have been working on that user icons enhancement, but not sure if I will complete it soon 19:43:24 I haven't had a good look through them yet, but there are many more bugs than that for 1.5, so i assume he just listed big features 19:43:39 yes, looks like it. 19:43:49 IIRC they're to upgrade third-party libs 19:44:41 I did find it slightly frustrating waiting for MOODLE_22_STABLE to appear when 2.2 came out in moodle, but I survived, and I'm not working on anything mahara-wise atm 19:46:04 richardm: you said it doesn't have to be a hard date. would there be a timeframe then for when there'll be a hard date so that work can begin on the release candidate or is that not necessary? 19:46:04 The one with crypt algorithm should definitely go to 1.5, it is reviewed and all green, no idea why hugh_home have not committed it yet (I am about bug #843568) 19:46:06 Launchpad bug 843568 in mahara "Stored passwords with a stronger hash algorithm" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843568 - Assigned to Hugh Davenport (hugh-catalyst) 19:46:46 anitsirk: I'm thinking we could save a bit of hassle by knocking a few more bugs on the head in the next few days, then branching after that 19:47:10 ah that one, i thought one of them was only +1, so was waiting for someoen else to look at it 19:47:13 checking now 19:47:16 a few days sounds good. :-) 19:47:25 rkabalin1: Cool, let's put it in, not sure why fmarier put it on his list 19:47:57 Personally I think most of the things that are done or almost done should go in 1.5 19:49:00 are we then agreed that we have the feature freeze on february 1, 2012 (let's make it 00:00 UTC) and that it is a soft one with a few extra days to finish features that are almost done? 19:49:38 Yep, and everyone needs to check the status of their favorite bugs on the tracker 19:49:54 sounds good 19:50:30 #action everyone check the status on their favorite tracker items to see if they can still be included in 1.5 before the freeze 19:50:32 I'd really quite like #920141 to hit 1.5.0 so that we can write UTs for 1.5.1 and 1.6 from the start 19:50:38 but I've not had enough time to properly look atit 19:50:44 sorry, bug 920141 19:50:46 Launchpad bug 920141 in mahara "Remove tests entry from .gitignore" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920141 - Assigned to Andrew Nicols (dobedobedoh) 19:50:47 sorry, bug #920141 19:51:42 May be we need to focus on revision these days, to complete at least those things that are +1 in gerrit 19:51:57 dobedobedoh: just have a look at it in the next few days, i think it'd be good to go in too 19:52:16 richardm: cool 19:52:30 rkabalin1: yes, getting things finished in the reviews would be great. 19:52:46 would you have time to help there? 19:53:01 dobedobedoh: it's already in gerrit :) 19:53:04 perhaps :) 19:54:14 so i guess it is also: go through the reviews and see which ones you can review that are already close to finish. 19:54:51 good idea 19:54:55 #action: everyone check the status of the items already in review and help with reviewing them to get them ready for 1.5 19:55:40 back to my earlier question: are we agreed to have the soft freeze in a few hours? only hugh_home voiced his +1 i think. 19:56:26 would be noon our time right? 19:56:41 ehm 1 p.m. i think 19:56:44 maybe a bit longer, so we have time to do status checking? and a few reviews? 19:57:08 would that be necessary if it is more of a soft freeze that richardm suggested? 19:57:10 would 5pm kiwi time work better for you guys? 19:57:12 yeah i think it's still a bit early to decide on the hard date, but maybe we should aim for 1 week's time? 19:57:26 oh, soft freeze is fbm 19:57:39 richardm: sounds good to me 19:57:52 richardm: 1 week is fine 19:59:17 last chance to object ;-) 19:59:46 #agreed soft feature freeze for mahara 1.5 on february 1, 2012 (00:00 UTC) and hard freeze is planned for february 8, 2012 to give a few extra days to finish features that are almost done and to go through the items already in review 20:00:06 alright. richardm do you want to continue with your next item? 20:00:22 sure 20:00:24 #topic MNet removal from Moodle 2.3 (richardm) 20:00:47 this is really something fmarier wanted discussed 20:00:57 but he can't be here today 20:01:03 From what I understand, it's not actually going to happen in the way that Martin originally suggested 20:01:15 we're not going to have webservices in 1.5, so no mnet replacement will be available 20:01:59 but web services would still be available as plugin for 1.5, right? 20:02:11 dobedobedoh: so the next moodle won't have mnet completely removed? 20:02:29 correct 20:02:37 ah that's good news. 20:02:39 anitsirk: yes, it's already a plugin for 1.5, but it's not able to be a replacement for mnet yet 20:02:58 At least, that's the way I understand it - this man may know otherewise 20:02:58 dobedobedoh: have you been talking to martin about mnet? 20:02:58 * mudrd8mz yawns 20:03:14 Not martin, but it came up when I was working on some mnet bugs a while ago 20:03:34 hi mudrd8mz 20:03:40 murdd8mz: we're discussing the impending doom of mnet (https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/2012-01-31) 20:03:43 hi everybody. I'm David Mudrak from Moodle HQ. I've been playing with MNet in Moodle for a while 20:04:01 * mudrd8mz rapid reading the page 20:04:04 #info mudrd8mz is David Mudrak from Moodle HQ 20:04:06 http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2012/mahara-dev.2012-01-31-19.33.log.txt - may give some more info 20:04:52 mudrd8mz: fmarier just wanted to suggest we don't delay the next mahara release to rush in a replacement for mnet 20:05:23 instead we leave it for the release after, and try to do a more complete job :) 20:05:50 what's the suggested milestone for the release? 20:05:54 #idea finish mahara 1.5 with mnet and then look for a replacement after the release 20:06:20 yep that's the plan 20:07:15 mudrd8mz: We're going into soft freeze tomorrow, and hard freeze is planned for 1 week 20:07:30 1.6 wouldn't be out for another 6-9 months is my guess? 20:07:52 oh, ok. no need to delay it just because of MNet, for sure 20:07:58 something like that. if we look into mnet removal that timeframe might even be tight. 20:08:10 it might delay a few sites upgrading their moodles straight away, but i don't think it's a big deal compared to the moodle->moodle problems people will have 20:08:26 mudrd8mz: do you have any more info on mnet in moodle 2.3? 20:08:37 from what I know from Moodle road map, MNet replacement is not really #1 issue. Although Jérôme Mouneyrac from Moodle HQ is the officer in charge for web services in Moodle and he might know better what the strategy for replacement is. 20:09:25 AFAIK a solution based on OAuth2 or something similar is considered 20:09:50 #info mnet replacement is not #1 issue for Moodle HQ but Jérôme Mouneyrac from Moodle HQ, the officer in charge for web services, may know more. 20:10:09 Moodle is not going to drop MNet without having a working solution for Mahara integration available, for sure 20:10:32 #info by mudrd8mz: Moodle is not going to drop MNet without having a working solution for Mahara integration available, for sure 20:11:14 ok cool, so we all can agree that we don't delay the release for mnet, and hopefully we'll get more information on the moodle plans in the next month or two 20:11:23 would anyone volunteer talking to Moodle HQ? 20:11:30 richardm: +1 20:11:41 +1 20:11:55 richardm: +1 20:12:53 #agreed mahara 1.5 is released as planned and a solution is investigated for the moodle hq drop of mnet for future versions 20:13:09 Thanks mudrd8mz :) 20:13:17 +1 20:13:23 cool, thanks mudrd8mz 20:13:28 fmarier will be happy 20:13:32 yeah. thanks, mudrd8mz 20:13:45 not just fmarier i reckon :-) 20:13:58 was pleasure, thanks guys. hopefully I'll get a chance to work in the integration if these two lovable products. bye! 20:14:11 any volunteers for talking to moodle hq? 20:14:12 cya, thanks for talking 20:14:12 *on the ... *of these 20:15:19 tip: Dan Poltawski is moving to AU and he will work in Moodle HQ. He has pretty much involvment in Mahara does he 20:15:31 ok. i guess, i'll try to find a volunteer later. 20:15:54 Ah good point... 20:16:04 dobedobedoh and rkabalin1: do you know if dan will still be involved in mahara? 20:16:10 He plans to be 20:16:14 yep 20:16:14 :-) 20:16:21 Since his evenings will probably be less filled with moodle 20:16:28 :-) 20:16:51 or may be even more, you never know 20:17:05 alright. is there anything else to discuss on this topic? i have the feeling we covered it well thanks to mudrd8mz insight. 20:17:21 yep, thanks mudrd8mz 20:17:41 Sorry I'm late 20:17:55 hi 20:18:00 hi anzeljg and bugg_home 20:18:12 ok. doesn't seem like there's anything else on the mnet topic. 20:18:32 now, i don't see elky and haven't had a response from her yet, so i assume she can't make it today. 20:18:40 then there are only two more items. 20:18:53 #topic Next meeting and chair 20:18:53 suggestion: March 20 at 7:30 a.m. UTC http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20120320T0730 20:18:53 Meeting in only 4 weeks time might be too short as we'll be busy working on getting the release for 1.5 under way. 20:19:15 seeing as we are already pretty much at the beginning of february... 20:19:42 sounds good to me 20:20:22 wfm 20:20:23 sounds good to me 20:20:25 #agreed sounds good to me too 20:20:29 John_____, gerry_ and Beth_ : this time wouldn't be good at all for you guys, but finding a time for EU, US and NZ is difficult and we usually alter the "less favorable time" from meeting to meeting. 20:21:02 Thanks Kristina - that's fine. 20:21:09 thanks. 20:21:25 #agreed the 15th Mahara developer meeting will take place on March 20 at 7:30 a.m. UTC http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20120320T0730 20:21:35 so who wants to volunteer for chair duty? :-) 20:22:05 if i remember correctly, elky and bugg_home wanted to when it was evening in nz ;-) 20:22:25 yes... 20:22:40 so. what say you? 20:22:42 As you can see, I'm not at making these NZ morning meetings ;) 20:22:47 not good* 20:22:57 but the next one would be 8:30 p.m. for us 20:22:59 also apparently lacking in function 20:23:36 Sure, I'll do it 20:23:42 great. thank you. sold. 20:24:13 #info bugg_home will chair the next meeting. you can find more info about your duties at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties 20:24:14 anitsirk is selling chair duties? 20:24:19 :D 20:24:40 ;-) 20:24:44 ok. last item: 20:24:52 #topic Any other business 20:24:59 I've got two 20:25:06 go ahead, anzeljg 20:25:15 First things first... 20:25:49 I wanted to merge skin support with latest mahara core, but was unable to do so, because had to fix europass plugin first. 20:26:06 So I'm asking if there would be enough time to merge it anyway. 20:26:36 #idea anzeljg would like to see skin support in mahara 1.5 and asks if there's still enough time. 20:26:40 I'll be needing two-three weeks, since I have to finnish skin live preview and have to think the new way of selecting skins.... 20:26:41 .. 20:27:20 anzeljg: we discussed the freeze today and the soft one is today (febr. 1) and the hard one in a week. did you finish the dev work so that it's ready to go into review? 20:27:32 oops. sorry. didn't see your earlier line. 20:27:57 2-3 weeks would exclude reviews 20:28:00 maybe, if i hurry, i could do it in a week - keep you posted 20:28:21 anzeljg: There won't be time, we're wanting to stop putting new big features in from tomorrow. 20:28:43 ok, so let's merge it after the release of 1.5 then? 20:28:54 it can be a very cool big feature for 1.6 :-) 20:29:14 so, you've said for the 1.3 and 1.4 if memory serves ;) 20:29:24 I really think we shoudl start to get some of these features in to 1.6 and to do so first 20:29:29 Same goes for isolated institutions 20:29:45 agree 20:29:54 We developed that for 1.2 and have updated it a couple of times with the hope of getting it in 20:30:01 Yeah, I agree it's frustrating. 20:30:29 The good thing now is at least we have a pretty robust process (gerrit) for getting new stuff in. 20:30:49 Admittedly it's a fairly high barrier for non-git-users! 20:31:54 * bugg_home needs to find time to get back to reviewing mahara stuff 20:32:40 anzeljg: as you will be finishing it soon, it can go into review for master early on in the release cycle and thus chances are increased that it becomes a core feature. it's not just the initial dev work but also the reviews and then implementing the suggestions / necessary changes that take time. 20:32:48 I think the thing with these big features like skins & isolated institutions is that it's hard to find the time to break them down into easily reviewable patches 20:33:31 pxh and i have been having the same struggle with webservices 20:33:33 Yeah - and that can be where gerrit falls down slightly 20:36:09 #idea: anzeljg finishes the skins support and submits it for review for mahara 1.6 early in the release cycle. 20:36:18 fine 20:36:20 The other think, which I think is even more important for average user than skins are repositories of external (cloud) services - files. 20:36:27 I think we should support that in Mahara because: 20:36:33 1. Moodle uses it 20:36:37 there was a discussion forum on that. let me find it 20:36:42 2. I was thinking of doing it - supoort for GoogleDocs, Dropbox and Windows Live SkyDrive 20:36:49 3. There is demand for it, see: 20:36:55 #link http://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=4327 20:36:57 We've also had local demand for it 20:37:02 #link http://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=4331 20:37:08 I think they should reside in "repository" folder to separate them from artefacts and blocktypes 20:37:15 Any thoughts? 20:37:17 .. 20:37:31 I'd love to have it 20:37:50 sounds great! 20:38:44 pxh had already looked into skydrive support and the solution that was preferred involved a heck of a lot of work. so this would be a huge feature. 20:39:08 sounds like a good idea. would you be wanting to implement in a similar fashion to moodle's repository system? 20:39:31 which some people grumble about... 20:39:32 don't know... 20:39:39 currently it is just an idea. 20:39:55 the important thing for repositories in mahara is that there would be no storage space needed on mahara. so files shouldn't be copied. 20:40:53 heh, moodle's repo system is awfully restrictive 20:41:05 anzeljg: do you want to think about it more after you finish skin support and draw up an initial spec? 20:41:12 ok 20:41:22 a spec would be great 20:41:32 I'd originally wanted to write the kaltura plugins with a repository, but that was impossible. 20:41:39 cool. :-) i'll not make it an action item for the next meeting though but put it onto the wiki, 20:41:42 .. 20:42:21 that's all from me. 20:42:32 any other business? 20:42:58 then just one quick one from me: there are going to be a few mahara conferences this year: 20:43:16 yes - I'm organising MaharaUK 20:43:19 mahara fr in june, mahara uk, mahoodlemoot at purchase in NY and probably a few more. 20:43:44 none local to us in NZ? :( 20:43:54 if you have the dates for these, please advertise early and let us know. you can also put them on the wiki including links to presentations. 20:44:23 haven't planned anything so far. 20:44:42 Mahara UK will be on the 3rd July in Lancaster, UK 20:44:50 the next mahara newsletter will come out on april 1 and should also include any dates for these conferences. 20:44:53 I'm hoping that we'll have a technical/developer half day on the 2nd July 20:45:07 will you have a CFP, dobedobedoh? 20:45:18 CFP? 20:45:37 ah yes 20:45:40 the MUG (Mahara User Group) also put in a proposal for the big AAEEBL ePortfolio conference in mid-July. 20:45:40 That'll be going up soon 20:45:42 Call for Papers 20:45:56 great. 20:46:01 that's it from me. 20:46:16 anything else? 20:47:08 alright. then i guess we are done for today. thanks a lot to all of you for attending. 20:47:11 #endmeeting